JayR Cela / 11-14-07
Several months ago I had the pleasure of meeting Fiona Gallagher, (Avatar~Fiona May) the SL project leader of Sun Micro Systems, at their in world location. To my surprise unlike most corporate entities with a presence here in SL , Sun Micro is very active within our virtual community, and a strong supporter of Linden Labs efforts to make SL a standard within the industry. Since then I have met many other wonderful people employed with Sun. So much so, I have decided to condense, and post a transcript from a recent, dual 2 hours each, Question & Answer sessions, held last month by Sun Micro employees and a number of independent resident developers.
After this phenomenal event, the best part was still to come. Most everyone headed on over to Club Java. The newly created gathering place for social events, related to the information technology industry. As the different conversations continued for hours and everyone mingled,and listened to music. I watched the avatars dance, chat, and get to know one in other. People from vastly different parts of the planet, all of them involved within this new and growing industry, gathered together in one virtual space. Enjoying themselves, discussing the various aspects and possibilities of virtual technology, a VW social gathering place. And then it suddenly hit me, Wow! Why has someone not thought of this before.
Well apparently Fiona, her coworkers and Sun Microsystems have. This may well be the best thing I have ever seen happen here in Second Life. The ability to be able to get so many people within this industry, and have a place to actually chat, dance, joke around and just socialize with one in other, in a friendly, environment, exchange idea's, concepts, and work together. Is so vastly different from the standard voice or video conference call.
Finally the independent, Second Life, software development community, has attracted Real Life, upper management attention, from one the industries best known pioneers and constant leader in the world of Information Technologies. What will become of Second Life, and will it eventually merge with, or into project Dark Star and or MPK20 ?
The Event
Gathered together in one virtual space were, some of the brightest and most influential minds involved, within this new, evolving computer information exchange platform. All of these people are actually taking a serious interest in the future of Lindens Labs virtual reality platform. On opening the session, A general topic question from, Web Marketing Manager Heidi Dailey (Avatar~Heidi Sun Microsystems) was asked to the large group of attendees, and the response was immediate.
My condensed transcript
Heidi SunMicrosystems: Good Morning and welcome to our SDN Chat on Sun on Second Life. I'm Heidi Dailey, Web Marketing Manager for Sun Developer Network. It's my pleasure to introduce Fiona Gallagher, Brian Foley and Chris Melissinos who have joined us today to discuss SUN's presence in Second Life. Can I ask you a question? What are you looking for in Second Life?
You: I want it to work properly
Tree Kyomoon: I want to use it as a corporate training tool
and design/develop platforms for training hereTrentTurner Sun Microsystems: RL/SL integration (plus what JayR said! ;-) and
I would like to be able to get email & phone calls here
AnandAtre Sun Microsystems: I want to use it for community meetings
Morgaine Dinova: I want it to scale, massively, in all dimensions of scalability.
Tedd Maa: 3D websites, common 3D platform both on communications protocols but also on objects, one set of servers for any 3D purpose
Rex Cronon: a SL viewer in Java
TrentTurner Sun Microsystems: use SL as a new kind of browser
Dirk Talamasca: and with what tools
Tedd Maa: artificial life experiments in 3D with server side physics engine
01 Hifeng: science and tech events
You: and I would like also to see Sun Micro completely take control of the Server side back end
Saijanai Kuhn: voluntary ad hoc clusters client side upon entering said AI simulation
Heidi Sun Microsystems: Ok. wow, thanks for the feedback!
Heidi Sun Microsystems: Rex, you had a question
Rex Cronon: is sun planning to make a SL viewer in java?
Heidi Sun Microsystems: It's open source and we hope someone in the developer community
would take on the challenge
Heidi Sun Microsystems: Next question?
Morgaine Dinova: If Sun is planning to create a Java-based viewer, their viewer team needs to sit in on the Scalability VAG discussions.
Fiona May: I agree, we are trying to link ourselves into as many of the groups as possible
Tedd Maa: Sun runs servers too? so I guess there are more than just 1 VAG that might be interesting
Fiona May: we are all about contributing and participating
Heidi Sun Microsystems: Next question?
TrentTurner Sun Microsystems: Will sun be building applications to run in SL? And Is there a group that will be spun off/created
Fiona May: Sun continually uses SL as a development environment, in fact at one time MPK20 used to have a place in SL. We are in fact working with them on bringing them back so that we can try to see how we can leverage each others technology
TrentTurner Sun Microsystems: Do we have a strategy now? :-) This seems like a huge pot of potential for both internal & external. That's a great starting point! ;-)
Fiona May: We believe that environments like Second Life give us the ability to explore new ways of communicating with customers, partners and people curious about Sun in a way that has previously been unavailable. We use our virtual space to more effectively communicate the kinds of technologies we create, ways to use those technologies, how we are making an impact on society at large and to just engage and talk with people.
Klaatu Niu: Yes. to further what Fiona said... I'm finding that as a way to connect to other tech communities here is very beneficial
Fiona May: Lastly, we see it as a way to observe and learn how to be more effective communicators and on line participants in this emerging space.
Heidi Sun Microsystems: Domchi, please ask your question
Domchi Underwood: Is there ANY kind of consideration in Sun regarding bringing Java in SL, like,for example, Java / Swing on the prims, like, you know, enabling standard Java GUI apps to use prims as screen, say, using DEBUG_CHANNEL as System.err and channel 0 as console? I'd like to see that much more than applets or server side Java. And I think Java2D has a lot to give to SL.
Tillie Ariantho: Do you think this will stick with 'exploring' only or SL might this become a well used environment in the future? What's your guess about it? :)
Fiona May: By having the ability to meet with other developers from all over the globe in a single space, by having the ability to visibly demonstrate what they are doing and by having access to technology executives who, due to very pressing travel schedules, may not be able to participate in a real world venue, but can jump into the Sun space in SL at a moment's notice. In short, the developer's benefit is access. Access to information and people
Heidi Sun Microsystems: Dirk, please ask your question
Dirk Talamasca: What do you find residents to be most curious about with regards to Sun.What is it they'd like to see and do you find that the technology available enables that properly?
Fiona May: Thats a really good question Dirk. I think people are still amazed about who Sun really is and the products and solutions we have to offer
Heidi Sun Microsystems: Wyn, please ask your question
Wyn Galbraith: Will Sun only be offering a meeting place in SL or will it have something to offer the residents of SL?
Fiona May: I think we are still learning about what people want to see from Sun in this environment, I don't have the answers I am always looking for feedback, Wyn. We try to give back to the community where possible, so far that has been on two fronts
Fiona May: 1. We have a public sandbox with really comprehensive tutorials, 2. We do not work with a big company such as MOU or Electric Sheep, all our builders and scripters are in world residents
Heidi Sun Microsystems: JayR, did you have a question?
You: as a gathering place / lets say the recently opened Sun Micro, Club Java night club I think the potential to bring together like minded software developers is a wonderful idea / how you intend to continue this
Fiona May: oh thanks JayR I forgot about the nightclub, never in my life did I think I would be a night club manager. LOL, hiring DJ's was so much fun.
You: Fiona / yeah I think it is Important that word gets out about Sun Micro's Club Java
Heidi Sun Microsystems: it is PG-13 :)
Fiona May: thank you - we have a live DJ this Friday
Heidi Sun Microsystems: Go Morgaine
Morgaine Dinova: So do you see SL (and virtual worlds in general) as nothing more than a conduit to run RL? Or do you also see Sun as contributing to a new virtual entity out there,in much the same way that the net has a certain independence as a social structure?
Fiona May: Morgaine, Great question, I want Sun to contribute to the new virtual entity. We have our own development platform and we are engaging closely with the other companies who are looking at how and where this environment will evolve
Klaatu Niu: I agree with Fiona.. one thing that I do here.. is participation in many things and communities not related directly with Sun
Fiona May: Up until recently (in fact yesterday) Sun did not have dedicated resource on SL, i did it where i could, VW is now my remit
Morgaine Dinova: Excellent
Heidi Sun Microsystems: Tree?
Tree Kyomoon: I recently read an article about Agile programming, and how large orgs are losing out to 1-3 man shops who can react/respond faster...what is Sun's position on this? (for example, digg.com, facebook, SL etc) Or should I say SUN's strategy
Klaatu Niu: Interesting that you should mention Agile. The team that I belong to at Sun.. has implemented Agile processes for all the projects were are involved in. In particular .. we are using Scrum to manage and guide our projects
Saijanai Kuhn: kool. though, in a sense, if a project can't be broken down to the Agile level, there's probably something wrong with the project
Klaatu Niu: Indeed yes
Klaatu Niu: We're finding at least in our group that agile is helping us be much more responsive in development. Hope that helps
Tree Kyomoon: yes thanks!
Heidi Sun Microsystems: Dirk, ask your question
Dirk Talamasca: Landowners in Second Life are quite curious about what the future holds for them. Rumors of a tier increase on grandfathered regions in the first quarter of 2008 will affect them first but they are also curious with regard to how the Open Sim project will affect them. Does Sun have any plans to facilitate ownership and maintenance of regions on the grid so that persons wishing to own and operate them without the technical know-how to do so may set up regions and connect to the grid easily?
You: good question Dirk, and what about OpenSim
Fiona May: Its not something we are considering at the moment but would be delighted to work with any organizations that are looking at this to ensure that the infrastructure they use is more stable and reliable
Klaatu Niu: though there isn't any plans at the moment. I'm part of our Network.com group. where we have put up publicly available services. and I could speculate that that could be something down the road.
Heidi Sun Microsystems: Wyn, ask your question.
Wyn Galbraith: Taking from your event note, which of Sun's technologies help build the SIMS we see today?
Fiona May: Good question
Fiona May: one of things we wanted to do when we started the rebuild was to have a presence that was open to the public asap. These sims are designed in a 3D package and an application based on java. The buildings are then imported, unfortunately the import mechanism uses too many prims, so in world builders do a prim replacement, what would of taken 3 months was actually achieved in a month, so in fact java was behind the development.
Wyn Galbraith: Thanks. :)
You: What software development tools will be made available to us ? And will they be directly linked to X-86 platform or Sparc ?
Wyn Galbraith: Good question JayR.
Fiona May: the client interface has been developed on Solaris for X86 platform.
Klaatu Niu: Well there is all the "normal" software tools avail.. compilers etec.. for X86 platform, in addition.. we have avail.. Project Darkstar and Project Wonderlan.. which run on X86 and provide a virtual world experience .. on a single box, Darkstar of a free.. Open source.. Virtual World Software environment . developed by Sun Labs, and made freely avail.. Google for Project Darkstar and you'll find it.. the code is available and runs on windows/solaris / and linux today
Orion Ogee: https://lg3d-wonderland.dev.java.net/
Fiona May: I have a question for you here, what would you like to see from Sun in SL, is what you see what you expect, are we missing the mark, are we just another corporate taking up grid space with no value add?
TrentTurner Sun Microsystems: No I think your making the right steps
You: I just want the back end servers,various routers / switches / interconnects to work properly !
Fiona May: yeahhhhh JayR, so do I
Rex Cronon: i would like if applets would be able to communicate with the SL viewer, back and forth:)
TrentTurner Sun Microsystems: Double up on Rex's comment
Domchi Underwood: I would love Java and Swing on the prim. :)
Tedd Maa: On that question: I'd like to see Sun take part in the development of the new SL
Wyn Galbraith: An in world career page ;)
Saijanai Kuhn: coordinate with Manpower on in-world job offerings for RL
Fiona May: access to RL job offerings are in the Sun lobby, we will be looking at recruitment fairs moving forward
Heidi Sun Microsystems: From a community standpoint what do you want? More chats? More events? More Sun Experts on line?
TrentTurner Sun Microsystems: More sun experts on line!
Heidi Sun Microsystems: Morgaine, please ask your question.
Morgaine Dinova: The Internet didn't grow explosively because of business interest, it exploded through growth at the leaves of the tree, through massive interest from ordinary people. Most business discovered it only very late in the game, with only a few insightful companies present early on: Cisco, DEC, Sun. Do you think that the memo of "Let's get this working, sort out the business later" is dead, or still alive and kicking?
Fiona May: i echo the sentiments on applets and java - I would like to throw the challenge out to our developer community as well. I will even consider land of any serious developers. for any*
Fiona May: Morgaine, I would hope that a lot of us learned by what happened in the early days of the Internet. I remember them only too well. From what I have seen there is a lot of people outside of the big corporates who are showing an interest in how this environment evolves
Klaatu Niu: Mogain.. I think thats exactly how we've gotten here too. for Sun . . we kinda started up our SL presence and than have worried about the business of it as we move forward
Morgaine Dinova: Fiona: I think the question really translates to: is Sun limited by having to present a business case now, for involvement in Vws.
Fiona May: up until yesterday Morgaine I would of said yes, but now put a dedicated head and the team will grow I think that opened up a whole new ballpark
Heidi SunMicrosystems: JayR, please ask your question
You: ok thank you this is more of a statement / and I feel is an important issue that needs to be dealt with. Ok this is just my opinion , seems to me there are server load balancing issue's that need to be addressed. Here within the LL Server cluster / Way to many packets of data seem to bounce around back and forth , thus this is creating unnecessary network traffic – resulting in all sorts of difficulties / what I believe needs to be done is consolidate the clustered architecture into a uniform state and maintain current evolving technologies as they emerge, and blending them as needed.
ChrisMelissinos SunMicrosystems: Gotcha! :)
Ancient Shriner: I think that sims should be run on virtual machines on mainframes
ChrisMelissinos SunMicrosystems: Why mainframes ?
Ancient Shriner: So you don't have network traffic, and you can take empty sims, and have only a couple clock cycles to see if there is some one there before ramping up in memory then you can scale up to hundreds per sim, as traffic bandwidth would become the problem, not processor horsepower
You: BlackBox seems like is a viable answer
ChrisMelissinos SunMicrosystems: Ok, let's talk about AS's comments. Mainframes act as a central point of power as well as failure
Ancient Shriner: ok, cluster of mainframes then
ChrisMelissinos SunMicrosystems: what we are building at Sun in Darkstar, is quite a bit different
Ancient Shriner: I'm very interested to learn about Darkstar
Slick Stringfellow: I was going to mention Darkstar, the idea of "shards" "sims" etc is outmodded
ChrisMelissinos SunMicrosystems: building a horiz. scalable environment that disributes the work as needed, invisible to the client as well as the application. The issues we have with today's though around virtual worlds is the sharded or geography based model
Ancient Shriner: that what you mean by shards?
ChrisMelissinos SunMicrosystems: they are principally based on "web server" links of thought, this works well for the WWW because there is no one datacenter that runs all of the servers powering the web
Ancient Shriner: true, but there is the InterNIC
ChrisMelissinos SunMicrosystems: can't do that in a distributed sim, no scale :) does not matter
Heidi SunMicrosystems: Go Eric
EricAhlberg SunMicrosystems: is it a centralized bandwidth problem, or a problem of load and cross network (client - > server -> #clients) load going exponential?
ChrisMelissinos SunMicrosystems: what needs to happen is to have the server be agnostic when it comes to content, treat everything the same
Ancient Shriner: it is a lock-step concensual projection of events problem
ChrisMelissinos SunMicrosystems: this way, the client and/or app does not care where in the data center their apps are being run, they just care that it *is* being run :)
Ancient Shriner: keeping virtual realities the same one each client . . . so we all see the same thing , but take inventory . . .where is that kept?
ChrisMelissinos SunMicrosystems: let's move on for a minute
ChrisMelissinos SunMicrosystems: Eric?
EricAhlberg SunMicrosystems: Well part of the problem is coordinating the clients within the latency between them
Fiona May: I think Erics question was, is it a centralized bandwidth problem, or a problem of load and cross network (client - > server -> #clients) load going exponential?
ChrisMelissinos SunMicrosystems: correct Eric
You: it is load balanceing I think
EricAhlberg SunMicrosystems: Maximizing the server helps tremendously
ChrisMelissinos SunMicrosystems: Which is why game developers hide latency with art / animation ;) Only for the items being executed on that particular server. We need to work to make the app run on all servers equally well.
ChrisMelissinos SunMicrosystems: Let's not talk Sun product here, this is about VW exploration
Fiona May: We believe that environments like Second Life give us the ability to explore new ways of communicating with customers, partners and people curious about Sun in a way that has previously been unavailable.
ChrisMelissinos SunMicrosystems: agreed
Fiona May: We use our virtual space to more effectively communicate the kinds of technologies we create, ways to use those technologies, how we are making an impact on society at large and to just engage and talk with people. Lastly, we see it as a way to observe and learn how to be more effective communicators and online participants in this emerging space.
ChrisMelissinos SunMicrosystems: We also use SL to understand how we can make the next evolution of VW platforms even better
Fiona May: We are continuing learning about this space, thats why i feel we are still learning about this environment
Heidi SunMicrosystems: Slick ask your question
Slick Stringfellow: Chris: Along those lines of VW and making them better, what if any interaction has Sun had with MindArk and EU?
ChrisMelissinos SunMicrosystems: Not much, meaning I have not reached out to them, but, we are working on Wonderland/MPK20 to look at building deeper collaboration frameworks with stronger/granular security and media. And can play some games in there also :)
EricAhlberg SunMicrosystems: Sun has been quite active in charities, and there are quite a number of non-profit causes active in SL. I would then offer service as a goal for Sun SL.? Probably the biggest is the American Cancer society relay, but we are also working on Rock the Vote, and With Capitol Hill, founded by John Gage
Fiona May: LL already offers non profits opportunities within SL. We try to give back to the SL community by dedicating space for a sandbox. We use in-world builders and scriptors, not big organizations
EricAhlberg SunMicrosystems: Rock On!!
Heidi SunMicrosystems: Whoops, you are up.
Whoops Babii: nope I'm fine. I just have to say that without Fiona, Sun's presence in SL would have floundered.
ChrisMelissinos SunMicrosystems: 100% agreed :)
Heidi SunMicrosystems: Dillan you're up.
Dillan Munro: I came in a bit late so sorry if this has been asked, but where are the performance bottlenecks in a VW application like SL? Raw processing power in the servers? Network bandwidth?
ChrisMelissinos SunMicrosystems: The issues can be broken down into overall architecture, initial design, and flexability. Bottlenecks that crash the server happen at the physical layer of the DC, geo based worlds assign servers to each parcel of land, the only way to fit more people or assets into the sim is to physically beef up that particular server. No load balancing across the entire DC. Imagine if we did that for each stock that trades on Wall Street, it would not scale. And this is not, BTW, a slam on LindenLabs, it is how they thought about initial design way back when, and their backgrounds were in the web space so, the thought is logical. Network bandwidth is another concern, but less of an issue as we can do things that mask latency. Unfortunately, we cant change the speed of light. and atomic physiscs are pretty hard and fast rules :) But we have some ideas on how to ease the latency burden ;)
Heidi SunMicrosystems: JayR, my friend, you are up.
You: ok this is a bit off topic / but i really want to bring it up. Since this new VR enviorment is evolving and we are obviously / all intelligent individuals / how can we work together / and help solve problems / such as World hunger / Domestic Violence / Peace and Co-operation in a RL world gone Mad? Can we actually make this a platform for Global World Peace ?
ChrisMelissinos SunMicrosystems: VW platforms allow us to shed the social blocks, we have in RL encounters, racial bias, gender bias, religious bias, etc... we can mask these and have a more candid conversation
EricAhlberg SunMicrosystems: Many are trying, we had long lines of demonstrators for Myanmar. Instant global demonstration?
ChrisMelissinos SunMicrosystems: VW platforms server to equalize voices, in a way RL media can not. Much more to discuss on this topic, but we should move along :)
You:Thank you for your response Chris & Eric :_)
Heidi SunMicrosystems: Next question?
Heidi SunMicrosystems: Go Slick
Slick Stringfellow: Darkstar seems based on N1 Grid Engine and HPC Cluster tools technologies,am I correct?
ChrisMelissinos SunMicrosystems: No, not at all :) Darkstar was built from the ground up for online games.
Slick Stringfellow: Similar priciples? compute nodes instead of geo servers, etc ;)
ChrisMelissinos SunMicrosystems: N1 and HPC Cluster serve different markets. Similar in that they seek to dynamically load balance and move data based on geography, but, the way a developer approaches Darkstar is through an API stack that appears mono-threaded, which is the world of the "game loop" In reality, it is highly scalable on the server.
Also, the game developer never actually touches the database, all access in and out are handled through services which increases our security as well as availabilitySlick Stringfellow: very interesting, thanks :)
ChrisMelissinos SunMicrosystems: no problem!check out http://www.projectdarkstar.com for more info :)
Heidi SunMicrosystems: Evian, go! :)
Evian Argus: Can you tell us what Darkstar and Wunderland will offer the business marketplace in the next 1-3 years? - Intranet Metaverses at the OEM level for medium/large companies? Hosted Metaverses for medium/large companies from SUN and Cisco?
ChrisMelissinos SunMicrosystems: Yes, and yes, plus imagine a framework that allowed you to interconnect very different themed worlds seamlessly and transfer goods, ID, status between said worlds allow for very granular levels of security that protect real world financial transactions or RL identity.
Evian Argus: All within the SUN/Cisco platform (only).
ChrisMelissinos SunMicrosystems: nope, Darkstar is written in Java, the client APIS are Java and C, we are already seeing client APIs in development on c#, Java,Flash, Torque, etc... all talking to the SAME back end server
Heidi SunMicrosystems: Karen, you are up. Ask away!
Karen Canto: Chris, I'm not a techie, you answered some of this, but i am interested to know if Sun is working on any VW platforms that are enterprise-friendly, for business? is that in the future cards for Sun? a safe place for business training, customer engagement?
ChrisMelissinos SunMicrosystems: Absolutely! MPK20 is our first research demonstration of exactly this, a VW environment designed for work environments. For example, if you are in Wonderland and see a picture of a Firefox browser, it is actually a live browser. Open Office even WindowsXP can be made available in the world, and several avatars can control at once
or pass control between each other. We can even provide mixed modes of security, let's say, for example, we were in the MPK20 world having this discussion. The Sun employees in this audience may have a security level that allows them to see a slide deck on the screen behind us. While the non Sun employees just see the graphic up there now all of us together. different, tailored experiences, we are building this, and using it for our internal meetings today.
ChrisMelissinos SunMicrosystems: Oh yeah, one more thing..... It's all Open Source.
Fiona May: we are working with this team to build an area in here to be able to hopefully demonstrate MPK20, so watch out for that.
ChrisMelissinos SunMicrosystems: yep!
Heidi SunMicrosystems: JayR, your turn. :)
You: ok mabey a bit off topic again / But numerous reports of bot-net type of invaders have been circulating around for the past year or so / and how they can creep into a VR environment / what attempts have been made to minimize this potential threat ?
ChrisMelissinos SunMicrosystems: the environment, from SL to your eTrade account is only as good as the security model around it. The same things we have in general web security, we have in VWs, no different.
You: anything at all that poses a security threat?
ChrisMelissinos SunMicrosystems: Anyone get a letter from a diplomat in Nigeria lately? There you go :) same issues.
You: LOL / * I appoligize for asking such a silly question * :(
Fiona May: no question is a silly question JayR
Heidi SunMicrosystems: @JayR...there are no silly questions
ChrisMelissinos SunMicrosystems: not silly at all
ChrisMelissinos SunMicrosystems: this is something that we have been discussing in the Metaverse Roadmap group for a while now. Very difficult issues to resolve, because nothing these worlds do is based on standards. Everyone creates their own frameworks
Whoops Babii: just like UNIX's before POSIX, etc.
Siddhartha Fonda: So the Metaverse Roadmap is the place to keep an eye on for that then..
ChrisMelissinos SunMicrosystems: absolutely, it deals with everything from social impact, economics, legislation, healthcare, education, etc.... some incredible minds got together to work on this, fantastic information and insights
ChrisMelissinos SunMicrosystems: Who here likes what Sun has done in SL?
DonaldKay SunMicrosystems: who doesn't?
ChrisMelissinos SunMicrosystems: ?
ChrisMelissinos SunMicrosystems: Who dosen't "get it"
Siddhartha Fonda: does
Jai Baxter: smiles
You: education and healthcare / we all may be able to make a difference
Siddhartha Fonda: loves it!
ChrisMelissinos SunMicrosystems: Education is a BIG one
EdWetmore SunMicrosystems is very pleased
ChrisMelissinos SunMicrosystems: Fiona rocks, BTW
Ancient Shriner: You're getting much better . . .
Siddhartha Fonda: Beautiful sims, engaging us in talks like this, the bookstore, etc.
Fiona May: the bookstore we are expanding and also looking at additional resources we can provide
You: if we work together and stop the maddness of War, sorry I Had To Say That :_)
Heidi SunMicrosystems: Well, time is up. I want to thank Chris and Fiona for their time and all of you for attending.
Jai Baxter: Like the M Roadmap, like the discourse- friendly spaces - interested to see how this will relate to standardization
Fiona May: I promise to drag Chris back in again
ChrisMelissinos SunMicrosystems: and let me know if you have any other questions :)
ChrisMelissinos SunMicrosystems: Thanks all for coming out!
Fiona May: Yes Thank You for coming
Revidescent Delvecchio: Thank you very much for taking the time to hold this discussion.
Ancient Shriner: Thanks for having the discussion in the first place!
Whoops Babii: Chris - how is the build environment in Wonderland?
ChrisMelissinos SunMicrosystems: It is Java at the moment, but for Darkstar there is already a publicly available bridge for the Torque engine, wich Microsoft is also using for their XNA platform
Evian Argus: Thanks ChrisMelissions - Fiona - Heidi - SUN
Fiona May: You are welcome Evian
ChrisMelissinos SunMicrosystems: Thanks for listening
Heidi Sun Microsystems: Chris Melissinos, Chief Gaming Officer, will be joining us at that time.
JayR Cela / 11-14-07
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